<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: PvP For Skills</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/</link>
	<description>Fat cows with grounding totems stuck up their ass</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Battlemaid</title>
		<link>http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>Battlemaid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.locksucks.com/?p=227#comment-641</guid>
		<description>First time gonna join PvP-vs-PvE holywar, lol. But it seems you are a bit over the edge with choosing pvp-geared player over someone who has cleared half of the Sunwell. 

Maybe in a normal, or a heroic instance it will work (don't really know since last time I did heroic was ages ago). And this is only for 5-mans, or Kara, and barely ZA. If you decide to go at least TK/SSC, or timed Zul'Aman, I can't imagine how lucky should your group be to cope with gear requirements of an instance.

In short, starting from certain difficulty level I really really doubt pvp gear can provide enjoyable PvE experience.

You know, PvE gear gives more dps, more healing and more threat. Less healing -&#62; less margin for error, less dps -&#62; longer fights -&#62; less margin for error. And even PvP players who you're praising make mistakes, since it's in human nature. This is why some encounters get exponentially harder, the less dps/heal you have.

tl;dr. Brutallus tank even in full S4? Wtfpwnt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First time gonna join PvP-vs-PvE holywar, lol. But it seems you are a bit over the edge with choosing pvp-geared player over someone who has cleared half of the Sunwell. </p>
<p>Maybe in a normal, or a heroic instance it will work (don&#8217;t really know since last time I did heroic was ages ago). And this is only for 5-mans, or Kara, and barely ZA. If you decide to go at least TK/SSC, or timed Zul&#8217;Aman, I can&#8217;t imagine how lucky should your group be to cope with gear requirements of an instance.</p>
<p>In short, starting from certain difficulty level I really really doubt pvp gear can provide enjoyable PvE experience.</p>
<p>You know, PvE gear gives more dps, more healing and more threat. Less healing -&gt; less margin for error, less dps -&gt; longer fights -&gt; less margin for error. And even PvP players who you&#8217;re praising make mistakes, since it&#8217;s in human nature. This is why some encounters get exponentially harder, the less dps/heal you have.</p>
<p>tl;dr. Brutallus tank even in full S4? Wtfpwnt.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: HolyWarrior</title>
		<link>http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/#comment-608</link>
		<dc:creator>HolyWarrior</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.locksucks.com/?p=227#comment-608</guid>
		<description>Noooooo

Burger King Fries are superior!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noooooo</p>
<p>Burger King Fries are superior!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Greenhair</title>
		<link>http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/#comment-596</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenhair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.locksucks.com/?p=227#comment-596</guid>
		<description>They probably already do that stuff cause they PvP.  :)  Or maybe they do ok at PvP cause they already do that stuff in PvE... who knows chicken or the egg!!  I will say though, the very best tank (in some peoples opinion) on the alliance side shandris server doesnt do PvP to my knowledge.  Though all the other tanks that i have played with that are really good, do also PvP.  Thus..who can say?  Cant be proved either way.  My opinion though is that some PvP helps out PvE, and prolly not so much the other way around, but I dont do too much PvE sides farming anymore...

I also think Coke is better than Pepsi, McDonald's french fries are better than Burger King's, and that green is a prettier color than blue.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They probably already do that stuff cause they PvP.  <img src='http://www.locksucks.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Or maybe they do ok at PvP cause they already do that stuff in PvE&#8230; who knows chicken or the egg!!  I will say though, the very best tank (in some peoples opinion) on the alliance side shandris server doesnt do PvP to my knowledge.  Though all the other tanks that i have played with that are really good, do also PvP.  Thus..who can say?  Cant be proved either way.  My opinion though is that some PvP helps out PvE, and prolly not so much the other way around, but I dont do too much PvE sides farming anymore&#8230;</p>
<p>I also think Coke is better than Pepsi, McDonald&#8217;s french fries are better than Burger King&#8217;s, and that green is a prettier color than blue.  <img src='http://www.locksucks.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 2ndNin</title>
		<link>http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/#comment-593</link>
		<dc:creator>2ndNin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 13:15:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.locksucks.com/?p=227#comment-593</guid>
		<description>:P so what does the Paladin tank do?

Bubble? Blessing of Sacrafice and freedom... huge cooldowns all round, and I already use them in fights.

Any good warrior tank will already do the things you listed, and a bad one won't learn them in pvp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://www.locksucks.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> so what does the Paladin tank do?</p>
<p>Bubble? Blessing of Sacrafice and freedom&#8230; huge cooldowns all round, and I already use them in fights.</p>
<p>Any good warrior tank will already do the things you listed, and a bad one won&#8217;t learn them in pvp.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Troja</title>
		<link>http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Troja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.locksucks.com/?p=227#comment-573</guid>
		<description>PvE vs PvP toons
I would have say it all depends on the class; For instance my main is a PvP geard hunter which is BM or MM depending on how i feel like playing. I came up doing instances and never pvp'd til i hit 70, the advice i give to all my friends who rolled hunter and are hunry for gear i tell them get into Arenas and into BG's the gear is comparable with PvE. PvE gear gives me the Mana pool to constantly shoot special shots but the PvP gear gave me more survivability. Going from 9.5k HP to 12 and my crit jumping from the low 20's to 31% or better depending ont he trinkets. As for DPS, i can hold my own and be int he top3 on a 10 man raid ofr about the top 10 in a 25 man. I have seen alot of warrs that are fury or arms and watched them dropped like rocks when in a fight. Usually due to lack of mitigation or having a pvp mindset. Most start to understand this after they die a few times. Kinda sad they didnt think on thier feet like you think most pvp'r would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PvE vs PvP toons<br />
I would have say it all depends on the class; For instance my main is a PvP geard hunter which is BM or MM depending on how i feel like playing. I came up doing instances and never pvp&#8217;d til i hit 70, the advice i give to all my friends who rolled hunter and are hunry for gear i tell them get into Arenas and into BG&#8217;s the gear is comparable with PvE. PvE gear gives me the Mana pool to constantly shoot special shots but the PvP gear gave me more survivability. Going from 9.5k HP to 12 and my crit jumping from the low 20&#8217;s to 31% or better depending ont he trinkets. As for DPS, i can hold my own and be int he top3 on a 10 man raid ofr about the top 10 in a 25 man. I have seen alot of warrs that are fury or arms and watched them dropped like rocks when in a fight. Usually due to lack of mitigation or having a pvp mindset. Most start to understand this after they die a few times. Kinda sad they didnt think on thier feet like you think most pvp&#8217;r would.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: megan</title>
		<link>http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/#comment-554</link>
		<dc:creator>megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.locksucks.com/?p=227#comment-554</guid>
		<description>The difference between a pure PVE tank and a tank who also knows his PVP stuff, let's look at a Warrior:

PVE tank will apply rotations of abilities in a specific manner to maximize threat and mitigation. They are only good for tanking Galv and Drek in BG's. And maybe holding a flag if the enemy team is mostly made up of Melee.

PVP tank will Disarm an enemy Warrior who just popped Death Wish/Trinket and wanted to beat on a healer/squishie. He will then spam Hamstring and hope Improved Hamstring procs to give the healer/squishie more breathing room before Disarm duration ends.

PVP tank will Intervene a focused teammate and use it to get out of Polymorph (yes, I've seen it done there are Warriors who are that fast). PVP tank will also use Intervene as a 3rd positional ability (Charge/Intercept), great for running flags (teammate runs/mounts ahead), getting back into LOS of your healer, or getting closer to a melee who's on a teammate when your Intercept is on cooldown.

PVP tank will Spell Reflect and kill enemy Spellcasters (my Warrior on Arena 5's team killed a Shaman with his own Chain Lightning the other day, it took us awhile to figure out who gibbed the Shaman). PVP tank will Spell Reflect to consume Hunter traps.

All of the above are things that you learn inherently through PVP---and then be carried over into PVE encounters, when you Disarm melee mobs who peel away while Taunt is on cooldown, Spell Reflect caster mobs, Intervene for superior mobility and LOS issues. All of the above are invaluable skills for when things don't go as planned and Plan B needs to work "right now".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difference between a pure PVE tank and a tank who also knows his PVP stuff, let&#8217;s look at a Warrior:</p>
<p>PVE tank will apply rotations of abilities in a specific manner to maximize threat and mitigation. They are only good for tanking Galv and Drek in BG&#8217;s. And maybe holding a flag if the enemy team is mostly made up of Melee.</p>
<p>PVP tank will Disarm an enemy Warrior who just popped Death Wish/Trinket and wanted to beat on a healer/squishie. He will then spam Hamstring and hope Improved Hamstring procs to give the healer/squishie more breathing room before Disarm duration ends.</p>
<p>PVP tank will Intervene a focused teammate and use it to get out of Polymorph (yes, I&#8217;ve seen it done there are Warriors who are that fast). PVP tank will also use Intervene as a 3rd positional ability (Charge/Intercept), great for running flags (teammate runs/mounts ahead), getting back into LOS of your healer, or getting closer to a melee who&#8217;s on a teammate when your Intercept is on cooldown.</p>
<p>PVP tank will Spell Reflect and kill enemy Spellcasters (my Warrior on Arena 5&#8217;s team killed a Shaman with his own Chain Lightning the other day, it took us awhile to figure out who gibbed the Shaman). PVP tank will Spell Reflect to consume Hunter traps.</p>
<p>All of the above are things that you learn inherently through PVP&#8212;and then be carried over into PVE encounters, when you Disarm melee mobs who peel away while Taunt is on cooldown, Spell Reflect caster mobs, Intervene for superior mobility and LOS issues. All of the above are invaluable skills for when things don&#8217;t go as planned and Plan B needs to work &#8220;right now&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: 2ndNin</title>
		<link>http://www.locksucks.com/2008/06/pvp-for-skills/#comment-540</link>
		<dc:creator>2ndNin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.locksucks.com/?p=227#comment-540</guid>
		<description>For PVE, often the tank being dead is the end of the encounter, I don't want a pvp player who successfully kited maggie around for 30s, that just slows the whole wipe recovery, tank death isn't always fatal, it just doesn't help in most cases to try and fight on since you will likely have a lot of dps above the offtank unless they are delibrately staying below him (threat caps etc).

PVP from a tanks perspective is completely pointless, I learn movement from tanking, I learn to avoid stuff, I learn to watch my health, watch the raid and co-ordinate. I have virtually no pvp abilities, I can't apply threat, my armour, health etc are of no value vs casters, its more of a game of snap for a tank than an experience. Of course I could go dps, or healer, but thats not why I play. My warlock is slightly different, she gets some of the stuff you are talking about, but any good pve player already knows how not to step in fires, heck paying attention to the boss and keys is pretty much muscle memory, they have attention to spare. What does suck in pvp (and more so arena than bgs) is that half the specs are useless and a lot of the time it comes down to a lol-fest. Rogue appears, death coil, comes back, fear, voidwalker, howl of terror, succubus... everything can be broken very easily, there is no easy way to break into arena, most of the fights end faster than you can really care to see, rogue stunned you, gg, warrior stuns, fears, gg. Of course you can get around these, but 90% of the stuff a pvper learns is useless for pve, I am not going to get charged and slain like that, thats why I have a tank, he taunts, builds threat, I maintain cc dps etc, pvp and pve skills are pretty exclusive because of that core difference, the threat and tank.

Allowing tanks to pvp successfully and the two become linked, pvp offering fast paced random encounters, pve offering scripted encounters with much tougher requirements (never seen a warrior lol-cleave me for 12K before, but bosses sure do, and then silence for the fun of it :P). Bringing in tanking, some measure of threat would in my opinion make pvp a lot more viable for 1/3rd the classes in the game, and more interesting from the rest, make it maybe position based, your hunter can't shoot past my tank at the squishie, the tank intercepts the shadow bolt, but there has to be something to make it viable for everyone, and more interesting to boot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For PVE, often the tank being dead is the end of the encounter, I don&#8217;t want a pvp player who successfully kited maggie around for 30s, that just slows the whole wipe recovery, tank death isn&#8217;t always fatal, it just doesn&#8217;t help in most cases to try and fight on since you will likely have a lot of dps above the offtank unless they are delibrately staying below him (threat caps etc).</p>
<p>PVP from a tanks perspective is completely pointless, I learn movement from tanking, I learn to avoid stuff, I learn to watch my health, watch the raid and co-ordinate. I have virtually no pvp abilities, I can&#8217;t apply threat, my armour, health etc are of no value vs casters, its more of a game of snap for a tank than an experience. Of course I could go dps, or healer, but thats not why I play. My warlock is slightly different, she gets some of the stuff you are talking about, but any good pve player already knows how not to step in fires, heck paying attention to the boss and keys is pretty much muscle memory, they have attention to spare. What does suck in pvp (and more so arena than bgs) is that half the specs are useless and a lot of the time it comes down to a lol-fest. Rogue appears, death coil, comes back, fear, voidwalker, howl of terror, succubus&#8230; everything can be broken very easily, there is no easy way to break into arena, most of the fights end faster than you can really care to see, rogue stunned you, gg, warrior stuns, fears, gg. Of course you can get around these, but 90% of the stuff a pvper learns is useless for pve, I am not going to get charged and slain like that, thats why I have a tank, he taunts, builds threat, I maintain cc dps etc, pvp and pve skills are pretty exclusive because of that core difference, the threat and tank.</p>
<p>Allowing tanks to pvp successfully and the two become linked, pvp offering fast paced random encounters, pve offering scripted encounters with much tougher requirements (never seen a warrior lol-cleave me for 12K before, but bosses sure do, and then silence for the fun of it :P). Bringing in tanking, some measure of threat would in my opinion make pvp a lot more viable for 1/3rd the classes in the game, and more interesting from the rest, make it maybe position based, your hunter can&#8217;t shoot past my tank at the squishie, the tank intercepts the shadow bolt, but there has to be something to make it viable for everyone, and more interesting to boot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
